his kind of thing happens all the time. A band comes together, plays a few gigs. After a while, they make a name for themselves. They've got an original sound, and they're part of something bigger. Somebody asks them to contribute a single for a compilation, which then gets released. Everything's looking good. And then, for whatever reason, things fall apart: the band breaks up; some get a real job, start a family; others join another band somewhere else. Life goes on.

This is what happened to the Theoretical Girls. Drawing from classical inspiration, the quartet used punk's form as an indirect reaction to popular music. Disassembled blasts of noise and naked emotion. From 1978 to 1981 the quartet was part of the loosely knit no wave scene in New York City. They operated on the periphery, playing to small audiences in lofts and clubs. Although the group managed to put out the single, "US Millie," they broke up before they could release a full album.

But life went on. Guitarist Glenn Branca has gone on to compose 12 symphonies. Drummer Wharton Tiers is now a Grammy-winning producer, who has worked with Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr., Nick Cave and many other bands. Guitarist and principal songwriter Jeffrey Lohn continues to compose, and keyboardist Margaret Dewyss has recently released an album on Smells Like Records.

Now, Acute Records has put out a compilation of mostly unreleased Theoretical Girls recordings. The music is an unapologetic fuck you in the face of the status quo. "It's a sort of revolutionary or striking out attitude—like, 'Don't even try to label me,'" explains Jeffrey Lohn.

There's been a renewed interest in music from the late '70s and early '80s lately, so it's a rather propitious time to reintroduce Theoretical Girls. Can you paint the scene. What was going on in New York while the Theoretical Girls were making music in the late '70s?

There were a lot of artists involved. That was what was unique about it. Some of the bands that were around at the time were "arty." That's the best word to describe it. They were not just commercial pop kinds of people; they were connected to the art world in some way. They were more philosophical, idea-oriented people. We were just making a more creative, non-commercial kind of music, more experimental, connected to ideas. Not slick.

I think that definitely comes across on the record.

Yeah, I'm trying to generalize here. With me, I was, then again, something else. I was definitely involved in the art world. I was doing art before this group, but I had studied classical music and I had never been into rock at all. I mean zero. I was probably the only one in that scene who came to it the way I did. That is, not via rock music at all. As a teenager I didn't even listen to rock music. I was into world music and Cuban music and Afro-Cuban and Brazilian and classical and jazz. All kinds of jazz, from old to new. I was a music fanatic, but I wasn't into rock.

What happened was one day I heard a punk rock concert in New York. It was the only rock concert I had ever been to. It wasn't the Ramones, as some people say. It was the Dead Boys. They were much cruder and rawer and more violent than the Ramones. To make a long story short, I loved it! On every level! They were very primitive, savage, powerful; it was a great show. I immediately had the idea to mix some of my classical training with punk rock. That's exactly what I wanted to do. It was very simple.

Listening to the record, there's a lot of experimentation and noise that probably didn't exist in the other music around you at the time.

Absolutely, yeah. Even on some of the more popular stuff. Like "US Millie" [the Theoretical Girls' first and only single available on ROIR New York Singles Scene, Ed]. That's not noise, and the influence is classical. I mean, it's not in a pretentious way, 'cause I really didn't want it to be pretentious. In fact, I wanted to make it so that someone could like "US Millie" and have not the slightest idea that there was a classical influence.

It's Stravinsky, the Russian composer. The choppy keyboard stuff and the chording and the rhythmic stuff. Some of the other stuff, too. "Lovin' in the Red" has some Beethoven influence, but I tried to do it in a way that wouldn't fuck things up in a pretentious way. I wanted it to rock!

Are you happy with the reception of the record?

I'm totally happy with the reception. The response has been unbelievable. There's been something like 20 reviews in Germany alone. But maybe you don't know the story; are you aware this CD was supposed to be released 18 years ago?

In '84, right?

Yeah. So you know. It was supposed to be released, but because of disputes and things, it didn't get out.

Disputes between you and Glenn Branca?

It wasn't actually a dispute. He sort of pulled the rug out from underneath me. I mean, I'm just giving you factual stuff, not opinions. I have some opinions as to why he did it, but I won't go into that. But, factually, at the time, just before this thing was to be sent to the manufacturer, he said that he'd changed his mind and refused to allow any of the songs he wrote to be on the CD. I wrote about 75 to 80 percent of the material for Theoretical Girls and he wrote about 20 to 25 percent. So, I just decided not to release it with only my material. I just didn't think it was right at the time, and I was real busy with other stuff so I didn't pursue it. I just couldn't understand why he didn't want this to happen. I was sad because I liked the music.

He did turn around a few years later and released his own stuff, the five or six songs he had written. I wasn't even aware that he did it on his own, but he did do it. It was a shock to me at the time. I didn't get it, so I just sorta forgot about It until this guy, Dan Selzer, dug it up, because he was a fan of "US Millie" and he was hoping it was going to be on the Branca release. When it wasn't, he started sniffing around, and I was in Europe at the time—he couldn't find me—and when he found me and he realized that there was all this other material, he sorta went gung ho and he really loved it. And that's how the CD got released. This project had nothing to do with me. I only wrote [and played] the music.

Dan Selzer is the head of Acute Records, right?

Dan Selzer is the producer of this record and the owner of Acute Records. Todd Hyman is the owner of Carpark [who distributed the album, Ed]. They've done everything. Dan has really worked his butt off on this thing. He contacted me and asked me if he could release the material and if I'd cooperate on the project; that is, supervising any remixing or editing. When he heard these tapes he almost flipped out. He just couldn't believe that this didn't come out. He did a great job. He baked the tapes, he digitized them, he preserved them, he carefully went over every single tape that we had.

But the songs were never meant to comprise an album, right? These are recordings that were pulled together from different times and different sources, some of them are live recordings…

Yes, exactly.

Do you feel an affinity with any of the bands of today?

No, zero. I mean, I was into this kind of music for two years—when I did it. Not before, and not after. I was only into what I was doing. I'm into music, but other kinds of music. It's funny. I got my inspiration to make this music outside of the world it's pigeonholed in. A lot of people are wrong about it. The producer keeps sending me reviews by e-mail, and I read 'em, and they're wrong! They're all wrong. They say it comes from this, it comes from John Cale, it comes from the Velvet Underground, it comes from Philip Glass. It's all wrong! Totally wrong!

But it makes sense in a way. There are similarities in sound…

Well, it might be there, but I didn't put it there [laughs]. I'll tell you the honest truth: I've never even heard the Velvet Underground! So, [Theoretical Girls couldn't have been influenced by them] through me. I've never heard John Cale! And I can't stand Philip Glass. He's totally overrated.

Any thoughts on Brian Eno? He was a controversial figure in the No Wave movement.

He's another one. He's at the bottom of my list. He was someone who actually loved the Theoretical Girls, and he had some interest in putting us on the No New York compilation. But I think it got back to him that I was absolutely not interested in working with him, and I just didn't want to get involved with him on any level. I hated his music. Philip Glass I just don't like, he just bores me. Eno really, really turned me off. The stuff I heard back then, I just couldn't stand it, and I didn't want to work with him.

I hope I'm not sounding snobby. That's not what I mean. I'm just saying I was into tons and tons of music, but a different kind of music than a lot of my peers were into. It's just that simple.

So how did the Theoretical Girls come together from such disparate backgrounds?

I met Glenn at a performance art place where I was performing. He saw it, and he wanted to meet me. He had just hit New York and he wanted to do experimental theater, but he had a background in rock music and he could play the rock guitar. He was a good guitar player. And then we started to hang around, and this Dead Boys thing happened and we decided to start a band.

I think one of the most interesting things about the record is that it looks forwards and backwards. In a way, it's the missing link between Neu! and Sonic Youth.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of people seem to think so. I have no idea about Neu!, because I've never heard them. The only rock that really interests me is just that first wave of punk rock that I heard, that visceral feeling I got from hearing the Dead Boys. And, you know, being an American you can't avoid rock and roll. It was not in my head. It's just a coincidence. Things like this happen all the time. Two people come to the same place from different paths. It's totally honest.

Robert Young
December 9, 2002